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> <channel><title>Comments on: Building Software Development Expertise &#8211; Using The Dreyfus Model</title> <atom:link href="http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/</link> <description>For the betterment of the software craft...</description> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:57:06 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2</generator> <item><title>By: Alan Skorkin</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-6762</link> <dc:creator>Alan Skorkin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 22 Dec 2010 12:11:58 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-6762</guid> <description>I&#039;ve said this before in a comment I believe, but I thought “Talent is Overrated” was a great read, it confirmed much of what I was already thinking, I&#039;ve been meaning to write a bit about it at some point. Maybe it&#039;s obligatory for a programmer to - at some point - write about the value of hard work :).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve said this before in a comment I believe, but I thought “Talent is Overrated” was a great read, it confirmed much of what I was already thinking, I&#8217;ve been meaning to write a bit about it at some point. Maybe it&#8217;s obligatory for a programmer to &#8211; at some point &#8211; write about the value of hard work :).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sam</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-6759</link> <dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 20 Dec 2010 16:55:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-6759</guid> <description>First of all: becoming an expert or increasing your expertise requires a lot of hard work and motivation. A lot of people don&#039;t have this motivation, and would rather stay at a secure and comfortable mediocre level. If you (not necessarily you) are motivated to do this though, read on.
K Anders Ericsson has done a lot of great work on how people become experts. There&#039;s a short excerpt &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.coachingmanagement.nl/The%20Making%20of%20an%20Expert.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. It basically boils down to an awful lot of hard work that is exactly at the level of what you can do. This process can be greatly accelerated by having a good coach that can tell you what you&#039;re doing wrong. Once you have &quot;bootstrapped&quot; you can continue improving yourself, but the right kind of environment and coaching is still very important. Expertise does not transfer - a vital part of your expertise is your factual knowledge, which is the reason that you can&#039;t train general managers that will manage any kind of business.
Geoff Colvin has written &quot;Talent is Overrated&quot;, and this is an easier to digest version of a lot of research, but it is by no means complete. It is however a good start if you want a more verbose description and a set of case studies of &quot;talent hotbeds&quot; around the world.
Cal Newport has a blog that focuses on study techniques. Much of what he is writing is mainly targeted at material of suitable level for highschool students or undergrads, but there are some gems on his blog about research level things as well.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all: becoming an expert or increasing your expertise requires a lot of hard work and motivation. A lot of people don&#8217;t have this motivation, and would rather stay at a secure and comfortable mediocre level. If you (not necessarily you) are motivated to do this though, read on.</p><p>K Anders Ericsson has done a lot of great work on how people become experts. There&#8217;s a short excerpt <a
href="http://www.coachingmanagement.nl/The%20Making%20of%20an%20Expert.pdf" rel="nofollow">here</a>. It basically boils down to an awful lot of hard work that is exactly at the level of what you can do. This process can be greatly accelerated by having a good coach that can tell you what you&#8217;re doing wrong. Once you have &#8220;bootstrapped&#8221; you can continue improving yourself, but the right kind of environment and coaching is still very important. Expertise does not transfer &#8211; a vital part of your expertise is your factual knowledge, which is the reason that you can&#8217;t train general managers that will manage any kind of business.</p><p>Geoff Colvin has written &#8220;Talent is Overrated&#8221;, and this is an easier to digest version of a lot of research, but it is by no means complete. It is however a good start if you want a more verbose description and a set of case studies of &#8220;talent hotbeds&#8221; around the world.</p><p>Cal Newport has a blog that focuses on study techniques. Much of what he is writing is mainly targeted at material of suitable level for highschool students or undergrads, but there are some gems on his blog about research level things as well.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Alan Skorkin</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-2052</link> <dc:creator>Alan Skorkin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:55:47 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-2052</guid> <description>Hi Liz,
Thanks for that great post, I found it extremely interesting and it has given me a lot to think about. Here are some of my immediate thoughts.
One of the consistent themes I am getting from your post is the fact that you&#039;ve had the opportunity to work with and help grow the skills of some great individuals, they were driven and sufficiently self-starting to grow their skills in the first place. So, it all really starts and ends with the quality of the people you&#039;re working with. You can help, guide and point but you can&#039;t make people grow their skills. So, the types of people you work with really counts.
I really like how you basically propose that it is not just knowledge flowing downhill, you can get your beginners to push and prod the more experienced practitioners to become more expert, I think that is great. Although once again, the quality of the people is paramount in my opinion.
Here is another thought, coaching someone takes time and the ability to frequently re-examine and adjust your course. It would be tough if all you did was set some vague goals every 6 months and that&#039;s all. It is almost like personal agility, you need to be able to retrospect and correct your course etc. It sounds to me like you&#039;ve been able to do that with some people which is great. I do have to say that most teams find it really difficult to do this as it is a massive time commitment and would grow exponentially with the size of the team.
Those are some of my immediate thoughts, but you have given me much to mull over and I&#039;ll let it bounce around my head for a while :). And on top of all that you&#039;ve reminded me that I&#039;ve been meaning to write up my thoughts on the stages of competence model as well (should probably do that before I forget again). Thanks for sharing.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Liz,</p><p>Thanks for that great post, I found it extremely interesting and it has given me a lot to think about. Here are some of my immediate thoughts.</p><p>One of the consistent themes I am getting from your post is the fact that you&#8217;ve had the opportunity to work with and help grow the skills of some great individuals, they were driven and sufficiently self-starting to grow their skills in the first place. So, it all really starts and ends with the quality of the people you&#8217;re working with. You can help, guide and point but you can&#8217;t make people grow their skills. So, the types of people you work with really counts.</p><p>I really like how you basically propose that it is not just knowledge flowing downhill, you can get your beginners to push and prod the more experienced practitioners to become more expert, I think that is great. Although once again, the quality of the people is paramount in my opinion.</p><p>Here is another thought, coaching someone takes time and the ability to frequently re-examine and adjust your course. It would be tough if all you did was set some vague goals every 6 months and that&#8217;s all. It is almost like personal agility, you need to be able to retrospect and correct your course etc. It sounds to me like you&#8217;ve been able to do that with some people which is great. I do have to say that most teams find it really difficult to do this as it is a massive time commitment and would grow exponentially with the size of the team.</p><p>Those are some of my immediate thoughts, but you have given me much to mull over and I&#8217;ll let it bounce around my head for a while :). And on top of all that you&#8217;ve reminded me that I&#8217;ve been meaning to write up my thoughts on the stages of competence model as well (should probably do that before I forget again). Thanks for sharing.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Liz Keogh</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-2034</link> <dc:creator>Liz Keogh</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:33:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-2034</guid> <description>Hi Alan,
I don&#039;t build experts from novices, but from competent practitioners. I also play on their strengths to do it - and I&#039;ve certainly brought people through from experienced beginners to knowledgeable practitioners capable of balancing out inexperience on a team.
I posted some things that I do here, together with the Dreyfus Model of Dreyfus Modelling:
http://lizkeogh.com/2009/08/13/building-experts-using-the-dreyfus-model/
Hope you find it interesting!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Alan,</p><p>I don&#8217;t build experts from novices, but from competent practitioners. I also play on their strengths to do it &#8211; and I&#8217;ve certainly brought people through from experienced beginners to knowledgeable practitioners capable of balancing out inexperience on a team.</p><p>I posted some things that I do here, together with the Dreyfus Model of Dreyfus Modelling:</p><p><a
href="http://lizkeogh.com/2009/08/13/building-experts-using-the-dreyfus-model/" rel="nofollow">http://lizkeogh.com/2009/08/13/building-experts-using-the-dreyfus-model/</a></p><p>Hope you find it interesting!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: lizkeogh.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Building experts using the Dreyfus Model</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-2032</link> <dc:creator>lizkeogh.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Building experts using the Dreyfus Model</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 19:27:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-2032</guid> <description>[...] just been reading Alan Skorkin&#8217;s and Mark Needham&#8217;s posts on the Dreyfus [...]</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] just been reading Alan Skorkin&#8217;s and Mark Needham&#8217;s posts on the Dreyfus [...]</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Alan Skorkin</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-1991</link> <dc:creator>Alan Skorkin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:38:16 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-1991</guid> <description>You&#039;re of course right, I for one would not want to work with people like that, I&#039;d like to hope that these kinds of people are in the minority since the very fact that you&#039;re a software developer means you will need to update your skills constantly.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re of course right, I for one would not want to work with people like that, I&#8217;d like to hope that these kinds of people are in the minority since the very fact that you&#8217;re a software developer means you will need to update your skills constantly.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Jordan Terrell</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-1983</link> <dc:creator>Jordan Terrell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:31:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-1983</guid> <description>Sadly, I think there is a subset of the development community that are quite satisfied with being at the Novice or Advanced Beginner level, and don&#039;t want to progress any further.  I&#039;ve seen some developers display harbor resentment toward other developers who try to build up the teams skills - viewing it as creating &quot;extra&quot; work they they don&#039;t want to do.  So, I agree, we can do things to *encourage* skills growth, but some will resist such effort.
Put a little more cliche: you can lead a horse to water, but you can&#039;t make it drink!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sadly, I think there is a subset of the development community that are quite satisfied with being at the Novice or Advanced Beginner level, and don&#8217;t want to progress any further.  I&#8217;ve seen some developers display harbor resentment toward other developers who try to build up the teams skills &#8211; viewing it as creating &#8220;extra&#8221; work they they don&#8217;t want to do.  So, I agree, we can do things to *encourage* skills growth, but some will resist such effort.</p><p>Put a little more cliche: you can lead a horse to water, but you can&#8217;t make it drink!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Alan Skorkin</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-1974</link> <dc:creator>Alan Skorkin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 05:13:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-1974</guid> <description>I really believe that no skill is an island. As you get better at some skills, you increase your chances of successfully learning other (and decrease the time it takes as well). And you&#039;re of course right in that domain knowledge can be a tremendous help. If you need to get across technologies but have the domain knowledge, it does seem to make everything a lot easier (personal experience talking).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really believe that no skill is an island. As you get better at some skills, you increase your chances of successfully learning other (and decrease the time it takes as well). And you&#8217;re of course right in that domain knowledge can be a tremendous help. If you need to get across technologies but have the domain knowledge, it does seem to make everything a lot easier (personal experience talking).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: David Robbins</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-1964</link> <dc:creator>David Robbins</dc:creator> <pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:05:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-1964</guid> <description>I disagree with the Dreyfus model.  A few years back we recruited people from Finance / Accounting and to be honest they had a much better vision of the bigger picture as they were so conversant in the processes that supported our company&#039;s business model.  I know it may not be a fair comparison, but I think that expertise is not comprised solely from technical knowledge.  Many times the users&#039; perspective in respects to the business domain often imposes a good barometer on what is required.
The staff recruited have in short developed great expertise in SQL, as dealing with set theory and associations of data was right up their alley.   They can work on their own, solve problems, and still  branch out for new techniques when presented with technical challenges.  One guy has started with C# and struggles, but as each obstacle conquered brings that person a different perspective.
Good provocative post.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I disagree with the Dreyfus model.  A few years back we recruited people from Finance / Accounting and to be honest they had a much better vision of the bigger picture as they were so conversant in the processes that supported our company&#8217;s business model.  I know it may not be a fair comparison, but I think that expertise is not comprised solely from technical knowledge.  Many times the users&#8217; perspective in respects to the business domain often imposes a good barometer on what is required.</p><p>The staff recruited have in short developed great expertise in SQL, as dealing with set theory and associations of data was right up their alley.   They can work on their own, solve problems, and still  branch out for new techniques when presented with technical challenges.  One guy has started with C# and struggles, but as each obstacle conquered brings that person a different perspective.</p><p>Good provocative post.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Alan Skorkin</title><link>http://www.skorks.com/2009/08/building-software-development-expertise-using-the-dreyfus-model/comment-page-1/#comment-1895</link> <dc:creator>Alan Skorkin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Thu, 06 Aug 2009 12:52:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.skorks.com/?p=917#comment-1895</guid> <description>That&#039;s right I also believe that the right environment is extremely important, but you&#039;re also correct that in the end it is down to the people. I have also found that the right kind of people will actually help perpetuate the right kind of environment (they build on each other).
Thanks, and i am glad you enjoyed reading it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right I also believe that the right environment is extremely important, but you&#8217;re also correct that in the end it is down to the people. I have also found that the right kind of people will actually help perpetuate the right kind of environment (they build on each other).</p><p>Thanks, and i am glad you enjoyed reading it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
