Comments on: Are You Actually A Post-Agilist? http://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/ For the betterment of the software craft... Mon, 21 Nov 2011 13:57:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1.2 By: Alan Skorkinhttp://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/comment-page-1/#comment-2749 Alan Skorkin Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:47:57 +0000 http://www.skorks.com/?p=738#comment-2749 The only way to change a pervasive mindset is one person at a time. This is why I try to explain what I believe to the people I work with as well as to the world through this blog :). Of course you don't want to preach, but developers are smart people (mostly :)), if they have the information they will hopefully draw the right conclusion eventually. The only way to change a pervasive mindset is one person at a time. This is why I try to explain what I believe to the people I work with as well as to the world through this blog :). Of course you don’t want to preach, but developers are smart people (mostly :)), if they have the information they will hopefully draw the right conclusion eventually.

]]> By: Danhttp://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/comment-page-1/#comment-2747 Dan Sun, 13 Sep 2009 14:09:01 +0000 http://www.skorks.com/?p=738#comment-2747 I always thought agile had lots of good ideas, and I've taken from it many ideas and they've helped me improve as a developer. But the agile movement itself is too cult-like. I guess when the masses started adopting it they didn't really understand the problems agile solved, and thus took it over and turned Agile into "Rigid". Oh well what can you do? I always thought agile had lots of good ideas, and I’ve taken from it many ideas and they’ve helped me improve as a developer. But the agile movement itself is too cult-like. I guess when the masses started adopting it they didn’t really understand the problems agile solved, and thus took it over and turned Agile into “Rigid”.

Oh well what can you do?

]]> By: Scott Bellwarehttp://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/comment-page-1/#comment-588 Scott Bellware Wed, 15 Oct 2008 14:58:40 +0000 http://www.skorks.com/?p=738#comment-588 Andrew, I don't think constant pairing is necessarily an agile edict, but there are significant issues in software quality that the pre-agile world hasn't understood well yet and is still resistant to. The loss of productivity and waste that comes from design flaws is much more egregious than the pre-agile world yet understands. Automating everything that can be automated, AND doing it expertly in a sustainable way that is informed by the economics of waste and continuous improvement is still a significant post-agile tenant. Test automation and merciless refactoring done for their own sake may very well be wasteful. Doing them with specific understandings of which testing and refactoring techniques and approaches increase productivity and decrease waste remains beneficial and desirable. Andrew,

I don’t think constant pairing is necessarily an agile edict, but there are significant issues in software quality that the pre-agile world hasn’t understood well yet and is still resistant to. The loss of productivity and waste that comes from design flaws is much more egregious than the pre-agile world yet understands.

Automating everything that can be automated, AND doing it expertly in a sustainable way that is informed by the economics of waste and continuous improvement is still a significant post-agile tenant.

Test automation and merciless refactoring done for their own sake may very well be wasteful. Doing them with specific understandings of which testing and refactoring techniques and approaches increase productivity and decrease waste remains beneficial and desirable.

]]> By: Chris Ballancehttp://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/comment-page-1/#comment-583 Chris Ballance Wed, 15 Oct 2008 03:12:01 +0000 http://www.skorks.com/?p=738#comment-583 I've always thought one of the tenants of Agile was to adopt what you need and discard when it exceeds. That aside, you raise some good points and I agree that in most situations, Mike Cohn's strict adherence to all of the facets of Agile, can prove counterproductive. I’ve always thought one of the tenants of Agile was to adopt what you need and discard when it exceeds. That aside, you raise some good points and I agree that in most situations, Mike Cohn’s strict adherence to all of the facets of Agile, can prove counterproductive.

]]> By: codisthttp://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/comment-page-1/#comment-582 codist Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:26:57 +0000 http://www.skorks.com/?p=738#comment-582 Good article, it made me write one as well: http://thecodist.com/article/agile_post_agile_scrum_xp_heavyweight_waterfall_sdlc_oh_my Good article, it made me write one as well: http://thecodist.com/article/agile_post_agile_scrum_xp_heavyweight_waterfall_sdlc_oh_my

]]> By: Andrew Blainhttp://www.skorks.com/2008/10/are-you-actually-a-post-agilist/comment-page-1/#comment-581 Andrew Blain Wed, 15 Oct 2008 02:25:03 +0000 http://www.skorks.com/?p=738#comment-581 Hi Alan, I'm in the camp that believes that Agile has some worthwhile ideas but that no methodology is applicable for all situations. Agile works well when deployed in an environment that has a lot of unknowns but is a resource intensive methodology when requirements are reasonably stable. Depending on the situation that you're in, a combination of: - medium intensity requirements analysis and solution design - thin(ish) vertical slices delivering core capability as priority - effort broken into reasonable length iterations and releases - use of agile coding techniques such as pairing for the more complex areas, and - incorporating elements of test driven development; seems to work for me. I'm really not a fan of: - refactoring for the sake of it - prioritising software quality over business value - pairing on all tasks - automating every test scenario that you can possibly think of, or - minimal effort in requirements analysis, software design and architecture. If that makes me post-agile, well and good. If that makes me heavyweight, well and good. I certainly don't buy into agile as the be all and end all in software development. Hope you're well, A. Hi Alan,

I’m in the camp that believes that Agile has some worthwhile ideas but that no methodology is applicable for all situations. Agile works well when deployed in an environment that has a lot of unknowns but is a resource intensive methodology when requirements are reasonably stable.

Depending on the situation that you’re in, a combination of:
- medium intensity requirements analysis and solution design
- thin(ish) vertical slices delivering core capability as priority
- effort broken into reasonable length iterations and releases
- use of agile coding techniques such as pairing for the more complex areas, and
- incorporating elements of test driven development;
seems to work for me.

I’m really not a fan of:
- refactoring for the sake of it
- prioritising software quality over business value
- pairing on all tasks
- automating every test scenario that you can possibly think of, or
- minimal effort in requirements analysis, software design and architecture.

If that makes me post-agile, well and good. If that makes me heavyweight, well and good. I certainly don’t buy into agile as the be all and end all in software development.

Hope you’re well,

A.

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